It might sound a little strange to use a paint roller on a clock dial. This is not just any paint roller but one specifically designed for the purpose. The candidate is a embossed dial pan for a Waterbury Wren shelf clock C.1895.
Most of the paint has been rubbed off the dial over the years which you can see in the photo below.
Should the dial be left as-is or retouched? It is an age-old clockmaker’s dilemma. We all have our views but I tend to take the position that if it is grimy and unsightly and takes away from the look of the clock it should be cleaned and retouched.
I decided to start from scratch. I knew that if I immersed the dial in my ultrasonic cleaner with the heat setting on I would risk stripping away all paint from the numbers and that is exactly what happened.
The cleaning also took off a thick layer of grime and dirt leaving a much brighter dial.
Dial as found
Hand painting is an art and a steady hand means the difference between a homemade job and one close to the original factory application. I used a multi surface water-based acrylic satin black paint, one I often use for clock dials, hands and so on.
Here is the dial just out of the ultrasonic cleaner. All paint has been released from the embossed areas. The ultrasonic solution was black and had to be discarded.
The paint roller is made out of 18 gauge wire and masking tape, specifically made for this job. I added a strip of double-sided tape to the roller to allow a rough surface so that the paint could adhere.
A homemade paint roller
The roller worked reasonably well over the embossed dial and it was certainly a lot faster than hand painting. Excess paint was removed from the dial with a Q-tip and toothpick.
Using a Q-tip to clean excess paint
I used the roller for the chapter ring as well. After rolling there were some touch-ups and an artists brush #2-0 was used for areas the roller could not reach.
Artist’s brush
I allowed the paint to dry and scraped off the excess.
Inpainting nearly complete
I am very pleased with the results. Here is a before and after shot of the dial.
BeforeMovement yet to be installed
It is not factory perfect but from a reasonable viewing distance it is difficult to tell it was repainted plus, it looks much more presentable.
Now, to find a 5 1/2 inch bezel and glass to complement the dial.
If you are a collector or simply have a general interest in mechanical clocks and wish to sell antique and/or vintage clocks then, read on. I am not a seller but I purchase clocks to build my collection.
I occasionally sell clocks locally as a way to manage my collection. Most of the clocks I’ve sold have been serviced by me, and my main goal is to recover the time spent on cleaning and repairs, rather than promoting sales on my blog.
Mauthe buffet clock C. 1950
The Difference between Antique and Vintage
Let’s begin with definitions. Antique is anything over 100 years old and vintage is less than 100 years but more than 30 years old. Anything that is less than 30 years old may be considered vintage but more often it is called collectible. Try to pass off a 30-year-old clock as an antique and you will turn off a lot of prospective buyers.
Miniature one-weight Vienna wall clock C.1870
Clock Terms
When selling a mantel clock, it’s important to use ‘mantel,’ not ‘mantle.’ A mantel refers to a shelf or structure, while a mantle is something one wears. Using the correct terminology also signals that you have a deeper knowledge of clocks than the average person.
A clock with two winding points (with some exceptions) is typically referred to as a striking clock, which strikes but does not ‘chime.’ A chiming clock usually plays a quarter-hour melody, such as Westminster or Whittington, and often has three winding points (though there are exceptions). There is no such thing as a ‘Tempus Fugit’ clock; ‘Tempus Fugit’ simply means ‘time flies in Latin.
A grandfather clock is a clock that stands 6 feet or taller and is not a wall clock. A grandmother clock is a floor clock that measures less than 6 feet in height. Grandfather clocks are also known as tall-case clocks, longcase clocks, or hall clocks.
Gingerbread and parlour clocks are distinct in design, but both are typically classified as kitchen clocks.
There are many other styles but let’s leave it at that.
Honesty and Disclosure
In my view, the most important element in selling a clock is honesty.
Inform the prospective buyer by describing as much detail as possible about the clock without getting too wordy. A clock that is a marriage, a case with a similar but replacement movement, should be stated as such. Replacement glass, newer dial, replacement crowns and finials, case repairs, or full case restoration should also be disclosed, perhaps not immediately in your ad but as a follow-up.
If the clock is running and was recently serviced by a competent repair person, state such in your ad. If the clock is running but the movement requires cleaning it should be stated as such. If it is not running explain why and what issues it might have such as a broken mainspring, missing pendulum bob, missing winding key, and so on. If you don’t know why it is not running, say so but be honest about it.
If you’re selling a clock and don’t know much about it, be honest and say so. Similarly, if you’re selling clocks in general but lack knowledge about them, it’s better to be transparent about that as well.
If your clock is rare, indicate why it is rare and support your claim with credible documentation including its provenance.
E. Ingraham shelf clock C.1878, not rare but uncommon
Establishing a Value
Research auction prices to get a feel for the value of similar clocks that are offered for sale and the price realized. Sources are Kijiji, Facebook Marketplace, eBay, and any number of respectable auction houses.
There will be a range of prices and something in the middle of the range is a good guide though its condition will determine what people expect to pay.
Determining the condition of a clock is an important factor in evaluating its value. The clock’s overall appearance, functionality, and any repairs or restorations it has undergone will all impact its worth. A clock in poor condition generally has a lower value than one in excellent condition, as potential buyers may factor in the cost and effort required to restore it.
Know that a clock is only worth as much as someone will pay. If you price your clock too high you will know it soon enough.
Rare and desirable clocks, as well as clocks with an interesting provenance, will command higher prices.
Clocks also vary in price according to the geographic location where they are sold. Generally, clocks that are made in the same location as the clock is sold will command higher prices. English and German bracket clocks are not as popular in America as they are in Europe and are priced accordingly.
Preparations for Sale
A clock in running condition will fetch a higher price than one that is not. A professionally serviced clock in excellent running order will command an even higher price. A clock case cleaned of grime will present better than a dirty one. Missing hands or dial glass will adversely affect the price. Items such as these can be replaced and parts are available from clock suppliers but it becomes an extra cost for the buyer and for many, it is a deal-breaker.
If you are handy at clock repair, servicing the movement or any case repairs will enhance the value of the clock you are selling. If you have serviced a clock, always be clear about the work you’ve done. Describe in detail the specific repairs, cleaning, or adjustments you’ve made to the movement, as well as any parts that were replaced or restored.
This transparency not only helps potential buyers understand the value of the clock but also assures them that the clock is in good working condition. Whether it’s oiling, replacing worn parts, or correcting any mechanical issues, providing this information builds trust and demonstrates your expertise.
The term servicing has many definitions. Be wary as sellers may claim a clock has been serviced if the only thing done to it is oiling. Among reputable clock repairers, servicing is defined as, taking the movement out of its case, disassembling the movement, cleaning the parts, addressing wear issues/repairs/parts replacement, reassembly, oiling, and testing before reinstalling it back into the case.
Sessions Raven time and strike shelf clock
Visual Presentation
While few cell phones (though some are improving) can capture highly detailed images of a clock, they often suffice for many purposes. However, blurry or out-of-focus photos are unacceptable.
Smiths Enfield mantel clock serviced and ready for its new owner
Several images from different angles as well as a photo of the inside of the clock case are much more helpful than one photo. During the daylight, place the clock near a window and position yourself between the window and the clock to take a series of photos in natural light. If there is damage or wear take close-up photos of those areas.
In general, a dedicated camera with artificial light will produce better results than a cell phone camera.
Clock Description
Crafting an ad is an art in itself. You must be concise and accurate and not overly wordy. There is a balance between too little and too much information. Less information means fewer inquiries from prospective buyers. Too much information with technical terms will turn off prospective buyers. Try to anticipate the questions prospective buyers might have in order to limit the number of follow-up queries.
State the clock’s maker if known, the model if possible, the year it was made, the type, (time-only, time and strike, chiming clock), the style of clock (mantel, wall, shelf, parlour, Ogee, tall-case, etc.). as well as any interesting features, for example, a steeple clock with an alarm function or a clock with a second’s hand. Along with your description state the approximate age. If you do not know, a picture of the maker’s mark on the dial or the movement will assist prospective buyers.
While it’s not necessary to give a reason for selling, doing so can sometimes enhance the ad.
1860s era Seth Thomas column and cornice shelf clock
Where to Advertize
There are a number of ways to sell a clock. Facebook Marketplace is very popular. Other local online for-sale sites, eBay, flea markets, consignment shops, and auction houses are popular places to sell a clock. Setting up an account for most online sites is a pre-requisite but there is usually no cost.
Mauthe wall clock circa 1899
Example of a Poor Ad
Antique clock, comes with key, $250
Example of an Eye-catching Ad
Scaling down my collection. Antique German time and strike clock made by Friedrich Mauthe, circa 1899. Completely serviced in 2019 which includes disassembly and addressing worn parts. Original glass, mild refresh of the case, new wall stabilizers, and new arch piece. Ran for many years in a family home in Parsboro, Nova Scotia. Runs well and keeps good time, original key supplied. $250
Juba Schatz time and strike mantel clock
Final Remarks
While selling a clock can be a frustrating experience, it can also be quite satisfying. I choose to sell locally to avoid shipping costs and the risk of items arriving damaged. Meeting the buyer in person allows me to answer any questions they may have and provide a more personal experience.
Though this is not a definitive guide to selling, I hope these pointers and ideas will help when you decide to sell (or buy) your antique or vintage mechanical clock.
I was attracted to the style of this clock but disappointed when I learned that it was a marriage of a Waterbury case with a Seth Thomas movement. Briefly, a marriage is when parts from two different makers come together.
Buying a clock from a flea market, antique mall, a shop or what have you is always a gamble. On this particular clock there is no trademark or name on the dial or a label in the back of the case that told me who the maker was. I made an assumption and it was an impulse buy.
Glass and bezel are from a later clock
While at the antique store I opened the back of the case to confirm that the clock had a movement and it was complete with pendulum bob and coiled gong and to me everything appeared correct until I brought it home. My first thought was an Ansonia movement when I looked at it under the dim light of the store.
Seth Thomas and other makers made similar cabinet style cases but this is the Wren by the Waterbury Clock Company. Being a marriage, the clock is worth much less to those particular about such matters. No matter, it looks attractive.
I can imagine a past owner’s conversation with the repair guy, I don’t care what you do, just make it work! And the repair guy responds by removing the very worn Waterbury movement and replacing it with a Seth Thomas. Easy peasy!
One of the current seller’s stickers on the case said it was a non-working clock but with minor adjustments, such as moving the pallets closer to the escape wheel and releasing the time-side mainspring, I had it running in no time. There is not much wrong with the movement and a good cleaning plus a bushing or two should put things right.
So, what did I buy?
As I said, I like the case and it has a decent movement but when a clock is a marriage one can expect some questionable repairs and interesting changes as one takes things apart.
I am not absolutely certain the dial pan came with the case or was added later but the glass and bezel are certainly from a mid-century mantel clock. It is so ugly it will be tossed into the spare parts drawer. I will keep the dial pan but a piecrust bezel with flat glass is more appropriate for the period.
Piecrust dial on a 6-column mantel clock
Seth Thomas time and strike 8-day movement
I removed the dial and discovered a number of extra screw holes here and there, varying lengths of screws, some screw holes filled with pieces of wood, even a couple of Robertson screws (not invented until after the First War) and so on. Obviously the replacement movement required new holes and why not drill a few extra holes for good measure!
The hole on the dial just above the 12 is larger than it should be. It was either enlarged to accommodate the regulating arbour or it’s a new hole altogether.
On a positive note both the case and the movement are from a similar period.
Disassembling the movement
But this post is about servicing the movement.
I am impressed with the engineering of this Seth Thomas movement. It is robust and well-designed though it has an interesting, overly complicated, speed regulating feature.
From my research I found that the hip style movement is the type 44 which was used for a 12 year period beginning in 1890. In 1903 it was presumably replaced with the type 89 movement, simpler to manufacture, fewer parts and more reliable, and appeared in many thousands of ST mantel clocks afterwards. It has a sickle shaped brass piece between the plates so that the clock can be turned backwards repeatedly at the hour to sync the strike with the hands. It is technically called a set-back counter weight.
Brass piece indicated by arrow
Regulating arbour with worm gear on one end
There were variations of this movement, front winding movements as opposed to rear winding, with and without the worm gear speed regulator and some with stop works. This movement does not have Geneva stops.
It took me more time than usual to pry open the plates because I was slowed down by the intricacy of regulating mechanism. Part of the mechanism consists of a long arbour that passes from the front plate to the back plate. At one end is a worm gear and on the other is the regulating end. It is secured to the outside of the front plate by means of a spring with a pin through the arbour. To release the arbour, the pin must be pulled and the spring releases.
Well, actually the spring flew across the room. No problem, I’m used to crawling on the floor looking for clock parts.
I have worked on a lot of American time and strike movements but this type of regulating mechanism is a first for me. In fact, the set-back counter weight is also a first for me.
Analysis of the movement
The movement has had 12 bushings installed, 5 on the front plate and 7 on the back. The work is well done but I don’t like the arrows scratched into the plate indicating where each bushing would be installed. I use a Sharpie pen and after I have completed the bushing work I wipe the marks off with alcohol. There is no need to mar the plates.
Arrow indicating scratch mark below bushing
After looking over the movement carefully I can see there is enough wear in some bushings that they must be replaced, both second wheels, front plate, the governor, both front and back and the escape wheel bridge bushing which for some reason has punch marks around it, the only unsightly repair.
Escape wheel and bridge
The mainsprings look to be in good shape and still bears the original ST trademarks. No worn gear teeth and the pivots, plus the lantern pinions are all in great shape.
All in all, not bad for a movement that was last serviced quite a number of years ago.
Strike side of ST movement
The pivots were polished and next is the bushing work. Two were interesting to say the least.
The count count wheel and the strike pin wheel are side by side. A bushing was required for the pin wheel but I could not access it from inside the plate. This is one of those few times when drilling from the outside is the only way however, I was able to push the bushing home from the inside plate. It is one of those situation where you have to stand back, analysis the problem and consider a strategy. It worked.
The second was the escape wheel bridge. To stabilize the bridge a 5-step block jig comes in handy. Otherwise, it is very difficult to keep the bridge steady and drill a straight hole.
% level job block used for an escape wheel bridge
The drilling went fine until the last 3.47 mm cutter. When I began to drill out the hole the old bushing came out. I knew right away that the new bushing would not have a tight fit. Evidently a past repairer had the same problem.
staking set
The block from a staking set is a useful tool. With it I was able to lay the plate down on it and punch the bushing from the inside to stabilize it.
Once together everything fell into place or so I thought. Unfortunately, I will have to take it apart again because I forgot the regulating worm gear which can only be installed with the plates separated. The movement will run perfectly fine without it, but it is part of the clock.
I want to share my experiences dealing with clock suppliers and let me begin by saying that my experiences have been largely positive.
I have been repairing and restoring clocks for the past 10 years and since I live in Canada I generally deal with one mechanical clock parts supplier out of Toronto, Ontario, Perrin. They are excellent for most of my needs, but they do not have everything and from time to time I must locate special or unique parts through other suppliers such as Merritts, Timesavers, and Ronell from the USA and Meadows and Passmorein England.
For example, I recently completed the restoration of an Ingraham Grecian shelf clock, circa 1871, and it required a new set of hands. The hour hand that came with the clock was too short and the minute hand was the incorrect style. My goal in this case is a clock that is as authentic looking as possible and incorrect hands always takes away from a clocks appearance.
My Canadian supplier did not have the correct hands and eventually my search brought me to an out-of-country supplier, Timesavers.
Ingraham Grecian Harris and Sons auction photo
Ingraham Grecian with correct sized moon hands
Had I ordered just a set of hands the shipping cost would have been substantial.
In order to justify the purchase I added additional parts; 2 smoothing broaches, a Seth Thomas #2maintaining spring, brass weight cable, a riffler set, and a bob wire set. The total came to $36US. The shipping and processing fee is $24US. Factoring in the rate of exchange the order cost me $82CDN.
If my Canadian supplier had everything I needed the cost would have been $20 less. It was not a significant difference in this case but it was worth it to find the correct hands.
What are the costs?
The sourcing of parts from various suppliers especially outside Canada can be expensive when administrative costs, shipping fees, exchange rates and import duty are included.
Some suppliers, however, require a minimum order. Others apply a credit card fee for international transactions, still others apply a processing fee and occasionally there is import duty. In almost every case the cost is higher and in some cases, it may not be worth it.
There are a number of choices for shipping but the cheapest method is not always “cheap”. Ground shipping in Canada is fairly inexpensive. Many out-of-country suppliers ship by air and the cost can be significantly higher.
That little $2.99 part can easily cost $20 or more after all costs.
Parts Availability
Seth Thomas Regulator #2
Not every supplier is going to have what you want. There are similarities from one supplier to another but there are also differences. For example, one is likely to find brass carriage clock feet from an English supplier because bracket and carriage clocks are much more common in that part of the world. English suppliers will also carry more tall case, and carriage clock parts and obviously, American suppliers will have many parts for clocks made in the USA.
The upside is that by knowing the various suppliers and their inventories I am able to satisfy most of my clock parts needs. If I only need one part I will always add additional items to justify the shipping and other costs.
My strategy for sourcing parts
If I were in the clock business and required one part, I would pass all costs on to the customer. I do not run a repair service and can afford to put a project aside if it needs parts and wait till I can justify an order.
I build a list of parts using an Excel spreadsheet, and when I feel there is enough to justify an order I pull the trigger. I can afford to wait.
As far as prices are concerned, companies such as Timesavers in the US have locked in their prices till 2022 while prices for some items at Perrin, a Canadian supplier, have increased marginally in the past year. Still, I buy Canadian when I can.
When ordering, if there is an offer of a free parts catalogue I always ask for one.
I also take advantage of every opportunity when I find pendulums, clock keys and other sundry items in flea markets and antique shops and snap them up, IF the price is less than I would buy from a supplier.
Clock parts are not cheap. If you are looking at clockmaking as a hobby factor in the cost of basic and more advanced tools but know that consumables can cost much more in the long run.
From my experience, most suppliers are excellent to deal with are and the service is speedy and professional. Just be mindful of all those other fees. It can really add up!
This clock is an antique store find not too far from where I live. It was high on a shelf and the price was not visible. I asked the shopkeeper to take it down so that I could check the price ($40) and verify that it had a mechanical movement.
Seth Thomas cabinet clock?
I opened the back panel, quickly glanced at the movement and the trademark stamp appeared to be Ansonia. I had worked on an Ansonia Syria shelf clock in the past year and it looked quite similar but it was an odd looking movement for an Ansonia. Ansonia movements generally have an arched plate, this one had a hump. No matter, I bought it.
Ansonia Syria cabinet clock
While at home I was able to examine the clock more closely.
What did I buy?
I discovered that the movement is made by the Seth Thomas Clock Co. not by Ansonia. The movement was made for about 12 years and was available from 1890 to 1902. The style of the case is also from the same period.
An exhaustive search of Seth Thomas clocks on the internet using keywords such as, shelf, parlour (parlor), cabinet, carved oak and mantel produced nothing. I then navigated to a well-known Seth Thomas database site, poured through hundreds of listings and again, zilch.
I began to realize that the case might not have been made by Seth Thomas, after all.
However, I was determined to find the maker. I searched for clocks made by other companies, starting with E.N Welch, Ansonia (because it is similar in style to the Syria), Gilbert, Sessions and finally Waterbury. When I used the term “Waterbury cabinet clock” I found it on an auction site. So, now I have a case made by a different maker than the movement.
What is a marriage?
Among clock circles it is generally accepted that if a clock has significant parts from another source, particularly the movement and put into a period correct case from a different maker, it is considered a marriage. If it has parts sourced from a number of other clocks it is a Frankenstein or Frankenclock. While this clock is not quite a Frankenclock it is certainly a marriage.
Waterbury Wren case
I am actually disappointed that this clock is a marriage
The case is a Waterbury model called the “Wren”. I found three Wren models, two with paper dials and one with the identical dial pan as my clock. It may well be that this dial pan is original to the case.
The concave brass bezel and glass are certainly more recent. When I first looked at the clock I knew that the brass bezel and glass were incorrect but that did not stop me from buying the clock. The original bezel would have been a piecrust design with flat glass. This glass bezel is from a 1930s vintage clock.
The back access door is made of plywood, a recent addition and, of course, there is no label. The original panel would have been made of solid wood and screwed to the sides of the case with a circular tin access port. The label would have been located on the outside under the port door or underneath the base,
Does the movement run?
The movement is complete with pendulum bob and ST key. It was sold as a non-running clock, but will the clock run?
While the movement was still in its case I applied mainspring oil to the tight mainspring, allowing a few minutes for penetration. I then removed the verge so that the time train would run freely, using my finger as a brake on the escape wheel. It was sluggish at first but eventually the sticky time side mainspring made several soft clunking sounds as it ran down.
You can see the very tight time-side mainspring in the next photo. Grime and built-up dirty oil over the years will seize a mainspring.
Once the mainspring was partially let down I reattached the verge and the clock would stop after a minute or so. There was definitely power going to the escape wheel but something else was amiss. It would skip a tooth or two with every rotation which told me that the pallets were too far from the escape wheel. There is an adjustment screw on an arm which allows the pallets to be moved closer (or further) to the escape wheel. I eventually found the correct distance and the clock began to run normally. At the same time I opened the crutch loop wider to allow more impulse.
This is certainly no substitute for an overhaul but a good diagnostic tool.
Meanwhile, the strike side ran perfectly.
The movement is running and keeping good time but it needs a cleaning and several wear issues addressed.
Seth Thomas 8-day time and strike movement
Next steps?
I am actually disappointed it is a marriage. Buying a clock is always a risk and if I had paid many times more for this clock I would have asked for my money back.
I am not sure what I am going to do with it but I am inclined to service it and perhaps put it on the market. If I sold it I would certainly disclose the fact that it has a period correct replacement movement from another maker.
Nevertheless, it would make an attractive clock once the case is cleaned, the movement is properly serviced and has the correct glass and bezel.
Perhaps recognizable as one of the most common regulator clocks in America, the Seth Thomas Regulator #2 was found in many railway stations, offices. libraries and other public places across America during the last century, a testament to its accuracy and dependability. It is a robust, accurate, well-engineered, and dependable timepiece that was made by Seth Thomas from 1860 to 1950, a run of 90 remarkable years. Few clocks can claim that kind of longevity.
It is an iconic American clock and every serious clock collector wants one.
Seth Thomas Regulator #2
This particular clock was made between 1922 and 1929 and has a base reminiscent of the earlier 1860 version of the #2. It has Arabic numbers with spade hands. The bow-tie between the wood dial bezel and the drop is one piece while earlier versions had a 3-piece “bow-tie”. It has a seconds hand 2 inches above the center cannon. However, it is not a true seconds hand and runs off the escapement taking 80 beats to complete the “minute”. All but the earliest #2s had the pendulum mounted in the rear.
It is 36 ½ inches tall and veneered in mahogany. It has 77A stamped on the bottom right of the movement with the letter “K” underneath and has a small ST stamp near the middle of the front plate. Some versions of the 77 have lantern pinions while this has cut or leaf pinions.
Seth Thomas Regulator #2
It has stopped – it needs a cleaning and perhaps a bushing or two
Lately, the clock has been stopping intermittently. I would nudge the clock along and it would run 5-10 minutes at a time and stop. I replaced the suspension spring and all seemed good as the clock ran for a couple of weeks. I thought I had addressed the issue but it began to stop again!
I bought the clock three years ago. It was oiled shortly after I received it but it has not been serviced and now it is telling me that servicing is long overdue.
Seth Thomas #2 suspension spring, old on left
The movement is relatively simple in that it has 4 wheels. I disassembled the movement, pegged the pivot holes, and re-assembled it. There is wear but I have seen far worse in clocks that continue to run well. However, It appears that this movement does not tolerate wear.
Very disturbing are the aggressive, deep punch marks around most of the pivot holes. Punching around pivot holes to close them might have been an acceptable practice many years ago, but not today. The repair is crude and unprofessional.
Seth Thomas #2, aggressive punch marks around all four wheels on the backplate
The leaf pinions are in very good condition, wheel teeth look good and the verge has minimal wear.
Servicing the movement
In total up to 6 bushings are required.
I also discovered a slightly bent third-wheel arbour that did not take much effort to straighten.
Seth Thomas #2, very simple with just 4 wheels
Despite its apparent simplicity the parts are made to close tolerances and any wear has the potential to stop the clock. I don’t think this is a good movement for the novice clock repairer.
I installed three bushings on the backplate; the second, third wheels, and the escape wheel, and two on the front; third wheel, the escape wheel, and the verge pivot hole front plate.
Seth Thomas #2, minus the motion works
The movement is clean, shiny, and mounted in the case for testing and minus the motion works gears.
Seth Thomas #2, test phase; the second hand is on to give me a quick visual as I pass by the clock
Despite the fact that I have 4 movement test stands, none are appropriate for this movement because of the iron bracket onto which the movement and pendulum are mounted. I suppose I could probably adapt something. For now, into the case it goes for testing.
After three weeks the clock is running very well.
Seth Thomas #2
While the movement was out of the case I replaced both the maintaining power spring and the old cable with 3/64 inch brass weight cable. The brass cable has one feature I really like, a nylon core that prevents it from coiling. I also gave the pendulum bob and weight a polishing.
Cleaning and bushing work put the clock right. After the wear issues were addressed the clock not only runs better but polishing the brass improves its appearance.
It should have been an easy fix but often when working with clock movements unexpected issues occasionally crop up.
The clock was purchased in the fall of 2018. This Seth Thomas #2 Regulator has had little done to it except oiling the movement and cleaning up the case. It is one of the most accurate mechanical clocks in my collection which is no surprise since these clocks were originally designed for offices and railways.
According to an online database, the lower section of the case was redesigned in 1922. This allows me to date the clock somewhere between 1922 and 1929. 77 weight-driven movements are very common. They were made sometime after 1915 and well into the 1940s. Perhaps the letter “K” under the 77A stamp on the movement is a clue as to exactly when it was manufactured.
It has a very attractive mahogany finish and it is a real conversation piece. There are probably more oak regulators than any other type of wood, so, mahogany, although not rare, is uncommon.
Seth Thomas Regulator #2
The suspension spring
A suspension spring is a thin band of steel called a “spring” by horologists by which the pendulum of a clock is suspended. It separates the pendulum rod and bob from the mounting post. Its purpose is to assist in controlling the rate of the pendulum swing.
The suspension spring looked tired when I first inspected the clock in 2018 and it was time for a replacement, sourced from my go-to Canadian supplier, Perrins.
Seth Thomas Regulator #2 base design
What should have taken minutes stretched to an hour or more
Seth Thomas Regulator #2 (77A (K)), the iron bracket is just behind the movement
Removing the movement prior to replacing the spring
Removing the movement consists of first removing the hands. A screw secures the minute hand while the hour hand is a friction fit and pulls straight out. The second hand also pulls off. Eight screws hold the face in place; 6 outside the chapter ring and two on either side of the second hand. Once the face is removed there is a wood crossbar, held by two larger screws in front of and either side of the movement, that must be removed.
Then the weight, which is hooked onto the pulley, is removed. There are 4 posts on the front of the movement, inboard on the bottom and above the plate screws on the top. They do not come out entirely but once unscrewed, the movement is released from an iron mounting bracket.
Next, the pendulum/rod which is hooked onto the suspension spring on the bracket is lifted out and put aside.
The movement is mounted on a heavy cast iron bracket
Replacing the suspension spring
Once the bracket was exposed I thought it would be a simple matter of swapping out the old suspension spring for the new one. If it was not original, it is, nevertheless, quite old and likely weak with age. It probably can be done in place but it is much easier simply removing the cast iron mounting bracket which is held in place by 4 wood screws.
Seth Thomas #2 suspension spring, old on left, new on right
Laying the bracket out flat simplifies pushing out the pin holding the suspension spring.
Movement bracket for Seth Thomas #2
I have come to learn that replacement parts from a supplier often must be made to fit and the suspension spring I bought is no exception. Using a pair of pliers, the pin was pushed out of the block. Once out I reamed the hole so that I did not have to struggle to install it. Except that the new pin did not fit the smaller hole in the post. So, rather than use the old pin a tapered brass pin replaced it.
Re-installation and testing
The bracket is then screwed back into the case with the suspension spring in place. The pendulum attaches to the end of the horizontal pins of the suspension spring but it is important to ensure that the end of the crutch wire, which has a 90-degree bend and hangs down from the movement goes through the opening in the pendulum.
The movement, face, and hands go back onto the clock. Push the hour hand in far enough, otherwise, it will rub against the minute hand and stop the clock.
There is very little space between the hour hand and the second’s hand. This is by design, and if you do not push the second’s hand in far enough you will know soon enough when interference stops the clock.
Level the clock case on the wall and observe the action of the pendulum.
What should have taken minutes stretched to over an hour. Now that the new suspension spring is in place, I have had a chance to look over the movement and it will be scheduled for a full servicing in the next month or so.
In the meantime, the clock is running well; there is slightly more amplitude in the pendulum swing than previously and it is keeping excellent time.
Why does a mechanical clock movement require servicing? The answer is fairly straight forward.
Keeping your clock in good running condition requires maintaining the movement’s working parts and maintaining the working parts reduces wear. Ideally, most clocks should be serviced every three to five years to maximize longevity and ensure proper functioning.
This article describes the 7 steps that I typically follow when servicing an antique or vintage clock movement. A common American 8-day time and strike, pendulum-driven movement is used as an example.
This is a Seth Thomas round top mantel clock in for servicing. This is Part I of two parts.
Among the most respected American clockmakers is the Seth Thomas Clock Co. My collection consists of six Seth Thomas clocks representing several styles made between 1865 and 1930.
Seth Thomas time and strike 8-day alarm clock
I purchased this particular mantel clock at the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors conference in Springfield Ma. in June of 2019.
Among the most respected and prolific American clockmakers is the Seth Thomas Clock Co. of America. Every collector I know has at least one Seth Thomas clock in their collection.
My modest collection consists of six Seth Thomas clocks representing several styles, all unique and from the period 1865 to 1930.
This is a Seth Thomas time and hour strike large round top (model name or number unknown) made in the 1870s. For first impressions of this clock, go here.
Seth Thomas round top shelf clock, veneer missing top left of the door frame
This shelf clock was purchased at the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors conference in Springfield Ma. in June of 2019.
The clock case is in such remarkable condition it would be a shame to ignore that one small blemish and once you see the missing veneer the eye is always drawn to it
The clock measures 15 inches in height, 10 inches wide at the base and 4 inches deep. The attractive Rosewood veneered case has a mirrored rectangular lower tablet. The grain of the Brazilian Rosewood is bold and nicely textured. However, a sliver of the veneer is missing between the 9 and 12 o’clock position of the dial bezel which, in my view, is repairable. My wife did not notice this until I pointed it out.
A previous owner attempted to hide the missing veneer by tinting the exposed area.
I am a big fan of weight driven clocks and will add them to my collection when time, opportunity and finances allow.
There are generally 2 categories of motive power for mechanical clocks. The energy required to run a clock is provided either by a spring or a weight. Most of my collection is spring-driven but 10 clocks are driven by weights and they represent the broad period from 1835 to 1996.
here are some interesting facts about my ten weight driven clocks:
Eight are American,
Two are Austro-German,
Three are Ogee style,
Five are thirty-hour or one-day,
Two are column style
One is woodworks, and
Three have deadbeat escapements with maintaining power
Rather than describe each one I will let the photos (with captions) speak for themselves.
A distinctive feature of this Seth Thomas round top is the lyre shaped 8-day Plymouth time and strike spring-driven movement with a hour strike on an iron bell. Not all of these models have the alarm but this one does. The movement is die-stamped “S. Thomas, Plymouth Conn.” and fitted with Geneva stops (stop-works) to improve timekeeping. It is a large movement squeezed into a relatively compact space.
I wrote two previous articles, one on first impressions and the other on sprucing up the case and a future article (December 24, 2019) addressing a small veneer issue on the front access door but this post concerns the alarm mechanism.
A simple job, less than half an hour in total and the only difficulty was waiting for the part
The alarm mechanism is located just below the movement and to the left and connected by wire to the alarm adjustment wheel mounted on the centre cannon. Both the alarm and the movement strike on the iron bell.
Junghans Crispi time and strike wall clock; my oldest daughter has her name on this one
“I have a sterling silver collection”, she said, “that my son will melt down and sell for cash” once I am gone
My sister, who is a couple of years younger and “was” an avid antique collector, remarked the other day that she has stopped collecting antiques. Why, I asked. There is no one to leave them to and no one to appreciate them, she replied. “I have a sterling silver collection”, she said, “that my son will melt down and sell for cash once I am gone”.
Among the most respected American clockmakers is the Seth Thomas Clock Co. In my collection are 6 Seth Thomas clocks representing several styles all of which are unique representing the period between 1865 and 1930.
I acquired this clock at the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors conference in Springfield Ma. in June of 2019.
During my travels through Ontario, I acquired a Seth Thomas Regulator #2, one of my newest additions. I discovered this clock in Bloomfield, a quaint village just minutes from Picton, a major hub in Prince Edward County renowned for its many wineries.
I first spotted the clock during a summer visit to the local antique shop and deliberated over the purchase for quite some time before finally deciding to take the plunge in the fall. These clocks are a rare find, and with the price being right and the clock in excellent condition, it felt like an opportunity I couldn’t pass up.
Perhaps best known as one of the most common regulator clocks in America, the Seth Thomas Regulator #2 was a fixture in many railway stations across the country during the last century—a testament to its accuracy and dependability. Robust, precise, well-engineered, and reliable, this timepiece was manufactured by Seth Thomas from 1860 to 1950, an impressive production run of 90 years. Few clocks can boast such longevity. It is an iconic American clock, and every serious clock collector aspires to own one.
Seth Thomas Regulator #2, circa 1922
A classic style, the #2 changed very little over the years. However, certain design characteristics help date the clock. The following identification guide describes dial and case characteristics that will aid in identifying the approximate year the clock was made.
The most distinctive visible characteristic is the design of the base.
The base of the clock
Aside from the distinctive base, all but the earliest #2s had the pendulum mounted in the rear with “T” hands.
The chart also lists the limited run reissue in 1976. Most Seth Thomas aficionados would agree that while the reissue is a handsome and well-made clock that is a testament to the original it is not in the same realm as an authentic Regulator #2 and the prices for these versions reflect accordingly. However, those who have the reissue seem to be pleased with their acquisition.
ccording to the chart, my clock was made between 1922 and 1929 and features a base reminiscent of the earlier 1860 version of the #2. It has Arabic numerals with spade hands, and the bow-tie connecting the wooden dial bezel to the drop is a single piece (earlier versions featured a three-piece bow-tie). The clock includes a second hand positioned 2 inches above the center cannon; however, it is not a true second hand, as it runs off the escapement and takes 80 beats to complete a “minute.”
Measuring 36 ½ inches in height, the clock is veneered in mahogany. The movement is stamped with “77A” in the bottom right corner, with the letter “K” underneath, but it bears no other markings. While some versions of the 77 movement have lantern pinions, this one is equipped with cut pinions.
Are there issues with this clock? Certainly, it is over 90 years old! There is minor loss on the dial, no label, a finish that has lost its luster and paint splatter on the top of the case not visible from the front. Is it really so hard removing a clock when painting a room!
Is it Perfect?
I brought this clock from Ontario to Nova Scotia by car. Removing the pendulum for transport is not a particularly simple process but if you are familiar with the pendulum arrangement on a typical weight-driven Vienna Regulator this one is no different. Like Viennas, the pendulum is hung behind the movement.
Both the weight and the pendulum must be removed for transport. There is many a story of broken glass when weight and pendulum are free to move around inside the case. To remove the weight, simply unhook it from the cable wheel.
There are minor issues with the dial-face
To remove the pendulum the movement must be taken out. First, the hands are taken off. In this version, the minute hand is held in place with a nut. Older ones have a pin. There are 8 small screws that hold the dial in place. Once the dial is removed, two larger screws on the wooden second-hand rail are removed. Four cylindrical column posts hold the movement in place. Unscrew these beginning with the bottom two and lift the movement out. Once the movement is out, the pendulum can be unhooked from its suspension spring. The entire process takes less than five minutes.
The trapezoid 77A movement with maintaining power in this clock looks clean. There is evidence of having been worked on in the past as there are 4 punch marks around the winding arbour to close the hole; a common practice in the past to close a pivot hole. Otherwise, the movement looks very good.
Trapezoid 77A movement
Getting the clock to run reliably was a challenge and it took a week or so to sort it out. The clock would run for a few minutes and stop.
Following a process of elimination, I removed the movement, inspected it for wear, found very little, oiled the pivots, and returned the movement to the case. I installed the dial, then the hands. The clock would run for a few minutes and stop. I removed the hands and dial; left the dial off but reinstalled the hands. Still, it would run only a few minutes. I then took the dial and hands off. I ran the movement for four days to eliminate any underlying issues and to convince myself that the problem lay in the positioning of the hands. The problem was definitely with the positioning of the hands.
On day five, I put the dial back on, then the second hand ensuring that there was sufficient clearance between the second hand and the face. Next, I put the hour hand on the pipe and pressed it in far enough to clear both the second hand and the minute hand. I attached the minute hand, inspected it for sufficient clearance, and screwed it in place. I started the clock.
Success at last! Regulating the clock is fairly simple and is achieved by turning the rating nut on the bottom of the pendulum. This clock must be level and in beat to function properly.
I used Murphy’s Soap to clean the grease and grime from the case. I chose to leave the paint splatter intact, as it adds a bit of character to the clock. Additionally, I polished the brass weight and pendulum bob to restore their shine.
The view from our front door
This clock boasts a striking appearance and a rich, illustrious history, making it a perfect addition to the front entrance of our home. Unfortunately, its journey over the past 90+ years remains a mystery.
The question of whether it qualifies as a “true regulator” is a debate for another time.
Antique and Vintage Mechanical Clocks 
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