My Seth Thomas Regulator #2 Clock five years later

In 2018, while exploring Ontario (Canada), I came across a Seth Thomas Regulator #2 in an antique shop in Bloomfield, just a short drive from Picton, a prominent center in Prince Edward County known for its numerous wineries.

I had my eye on this clock when I viewed it online over the summer and carefully contemplated the purchase before finally acquiring it in the fall of 2018. These clocks are somewhat rare to find, but the price was reasonable, and the clock itself was in very good condition.

Seth Thomas #2
Seth Thomas Regulator #2

The Seth Thomas Regulator #2 was recognizable at one time as one of the most commonly seen regulator clocks in America. It graced many railway stations across both the US and Canada throughout the last century, a testament to its accuracy and reliability. It is a sturdy, precise, well-crafted timepiece that Seth Thomas produced from 1860 to 1950, an impressive 90-year production run. Few clocks can boast such longevity, making it an iconic American clock that every serious clock collector desires.

The design of the #2 remained largely unchanged over the years, but certain design characteristics can help in dating a specific clock. The identification guide below outlines characteristics of the dial and case that assist in estimating the year of manufacture. A clock colleague cautioned me against placing excessive trust in the chart, but I am satisfied with using rough estimates.

Seth Thomas Regulator #2
Seth Thomas Regulator #2 ID chart

With the exception of its distinctive base, most #2s produced after the earliest versions had the pendulum mounted in the rear. The chart also mentions a limited reissue in 1976. While the reissue is well-crafted and aesthetically pleasing, most Seth Thomas enthusiasts would argue that it doesn’t quite compare to an authentic Regulator #2, and the prices for these versions reflect that sentiment. Nevertheless, those who own the reissue appear to be satisfied with their acquisition.

According to the chart, my clock was likely made between 1922 and 1929. It features a base reminiscent of the earlier 1860 version of the #2, Arabic numerals, and spade hands. The bow tie connecting the wood dial bezel and the drop is a single piece (earlier versions had a three-piece bow tie). The clock has a second hand positioned 2 inches above the center cannon, but it’s not a true second hand; it runs off the escapement, taking 80 beats to complete a “minute.” Standing at 36 ½ inches tall, it’s veneered in mahogany.

The bottom right of the movement bears the stamp “77A” with the letter “K” beneath it, although it lacks other distinctive markings. Unlike some versions of the 77 movement that have lantern pinions, this one has cut pinions. Whether one type of pinion is better than the other is open to debate.

Seth Thomas Regulator #2
Seth Thomas Regulator #2 showing some marks on the face

As with any item nearly 100 years old, there were some issues with the clock. There is minor scuffing on the dial, no label, a finish that has lost its luster, and paint splatter on the top of the case (though not visible from most any angle). Taking down a clock while painting a room is a simple decision in my view, but some individuals prefer painting around it.

I transported this clock from Ontario to Nova Scotia by car, and removing the pendulum for transportation is not a straightforward process. If you are familiar with the pendulum arrangement on a typical weight-driven Vienna Regulator clock, this one is similar. Removing the weight is as simple as unhooking it from the cable wheel. Like Viennas, the pendulum is hung behind the movement, and both the weight and movement must be removed to access the pendulum since the pendulum must be removed for transport.

Seth Thomas #2
Seth Thomas #2 movement in place

The steps to remove the pendulum are as follows. First, the clock hands are removed. The minute hand is secured with a nut, which must be released. The second hand is a friction fit and can be pulled straight off.

There are eight small screws holding the dial in place. Once the dial is off, two larger screws on the wooden second-hand rail can be removed to access the movement. Four cylindrical column posts secure the movement in place; unscrewing them, starting with the bottom two, allows the movement to be lifted/pulled out. Once the movement is out, the pendulum can be unhooked from its suspension spring. The entire process takes less than five minutes.

The trapezoid 77A movement in this clock appeared clean when I first opened the case. There were signs of previous work, such as punch marks around some pivot holes, a common practice frowned upon today. The deadbeat escapement was in good condition and did not require adjustment. Otherwise, the movement looked to be in very good condition.

Seth Thomas #2
Seth Thomas #2 with escapement removed. Observe the numerous punch marks

Getting the clock to run reliably presented a challenge, and it took about a week to troubleshoot and resolve the issue. It eventually became clear that the issue lay in the positioning of the hands with the second hand obstructing the hour hand. I remounted the dial ensuring there was sufficient clearance between the second hand and the hour hand and it ran smoothly thereafter.

Regulating the clock is a relatively straightforward process, achieved by adjusting the rating nut on the bottom of the pendulum. This clock must be level and properly aligned to function correctly.

Time for servicing

In the spring of 2021, the clock began to stop intermittently. It would operate for 5-10 minutes before coming to a halt. I had replaced the suspension spring two weeks earlier and thought I had addressed the issue but clearly, I had not.

Seth Thomas #2 suspension spring
Seth Thomas #2 suspension spring

The clock’s apparent simplicity masks the tight tolerances it requires, and any signs of wear have the potential to cause the clock to cease functioning. Despite being a time-only movement with few gears I do not believe this is a good movement for the novice clock repairer.

I installed three bushings on the back plate; the second, and third wheels, and the escape wheel, and two on the front; third wheel, the escape wheel, and the verge pivot hole front plate.

Seth Thomas #2
Seth Thomas #2 movement

At the time I also discovered a slightly bent third-wheel arbour that did not take much effort to straighten.

While the movement was out of the case I replaced the maintaining power spring. I’m unsure if I’ve resolved the clunking sound the clock produced when I wound it previously because I now must turn the key crank in the opposite direction for a quarter turn to adjust the maintaining spring to avoid the clunk.

I also replaced the old cable with a 3/64-inch brass-weight cable. One aspect of the brass cable that I particularly appreciate is its nylon core, which prevents it from coiling. Polishing the pendulum bob and weight enhanced its overall appearance.

Since 2021 it has been running very well and keeping accurate time.

While these clocks were constructed robustly and designed for demanding environments, running for extended periods without the need for maintenance, there is still a requirement for periodic servicing. When I obtained the clock, it quite likely had gone without servicing for a considerable duration, and the maintenance performed in 2021 was certainly long overdue.

Seth Thomas Regulator #2
Seth Thomas Regulator #2

Still, I am happy with the purchase of this clock. At present, it adorns the front hallway of our home, adding a touch of elegance to the entrance.

This clock is a splendid addition to our home’s front entrance, with a rich and storied history. While its exact whereabouts over the past 100 years remains a mystery, it remains a remarkable clock.

John Sawin banjo clock CA 1840

John Sawin was a prolific 1840s Boston clockmaker and many of his clocks have survived to this day.

The Key features of the Sawin timepiece share many of the attributes of the original Simon Willard Patented Timepiece. They are:

  • No striking parts reducing the number of wheels to a minimum for simplicity,
  • Making the distance between the plates wider allowing sufficient cord on the barrel allowing it run 8 days,
  • The push-pin catches on the bezel and lower access doors,
  • Placing the pendulum in front of the weight to ease repair and regulation,
  • The weight is reduced and made longer and wider,
  • The pendulum and guide are placed in front of the movement,
  • An oblong space in the pendulum so that it swings clear of the centre pinions and hour and minute collars,
  • The method of mounting the movement to the case. Works are fastened by two “ears”, the top right and bottom left backplate,
  • The calculation of the train in consequence of shortening the pendulum,
  • No method of securing the pendulum when transporting the clock,
  • Acorn top finial and wood dial bezel
  • The shape of the case,

The earliest timepieces from Roxbury had long screws from the front plate into the case in the upper right and lower left. Beginning about 1820 in Boston a single bolt from the back of the case into the movement was used as per Howard & Davis and E. Howard. North Attleboro movements had holes in the backplate in the upper right and lower left for screws into the case.

Upper right mounting “ear”

A John Sawin movement is distinguished by brass ears attached to the movement back plate in the upper right and lower left. Other Boston area clockmakers might have used the same casemakers so their cases probably would look similar to his.

As found

Cases came from one of several casemakers in the Boston area. Case construction is helpful in identifying where the clock was probably made and movement for the maker, however by the 1830’s movement construction had become so generic that was really difficult to identify the maker. It is probable that were many small workshops run by former apprentices and/or journeyman clockmakers that supplied movements to the trade as needed by the existing makers in the various cities so it makes things even more complicated.

The real differences were how the movement was attached to the case and that gives us information on where it was manufactured.

The John Sawin Banjo headpiece is carved out. With the dial off, the headpiece of the case looks like two crescent moons facing each other, thin at the top and bottom and thick in the middle. There is a piece of cloth glued to the inside top of the case to hold the 2 crescent moons together.

Two crescent moons make up the headpiece

Unfortunately this clock has no identifying markings which means that it is quite possible that while it may not have been made by John Sawin himself but one of his associates or one of his apprentices. Still in all, it is a nice-looking clock and looks great on any wall.

George H Clark Ogee clock – movement and dial work

One cannot deny the classic style of an American Ogee clock. This one is in great shape and required almost nothing to get it to top form. 30-hour shelf clocks are abundant but not many cases survive years of wear and tear.

Dial removed to show the 30 hour movement

This George H. Clark 30-hour shelf clock is a very good example of Connecticut form. The case form is called an “og” or “ogee”, a mathematical term that describes the “S” curve shape in the primary molding that surrounds the door.

The clock has a brass time and strike, weight driven movement with an excellent original printed paper label on the interior reading in part “Made and Sold at/46 Courtlandt St/New York…. George H. Clark”. It measures 28 x 17 x 4.5”. This rectangular shaped case is decorated with nicely grained mahogany veneers. The veneer has very little if any losses.

The dial face

The upper section of the door is fitted with clear glass. Through this one can view the painted wood dial. The wood dial tells me that it is an early pre-1850 clock. This dial is formatted with a Roman numeral time track.

It is always a challenge matching 100+-year-old paint but by combining white. brown and yellow acrylic paint I was able to approximate the original colour. Some Roman Numerals were touched up with black acrylic paint.

The wood dial before touch-ups

And after numerals and face given a matching paint; you can see the difference in the number 4

I also glued two small blocks under the left and right “L” pins to centre the dial correctly.

The door is open showing the gong coil and the pasted label in very good condition

The lower section features a beehive painted tablet. The tablet is a replacement but fairly close to what would have been there at the time.

Beehive design; not original but in keeping with the style

Observations regarding the movement

The movement looks like an early (unmarked) Waterbury, ca. 1860 type 2.411. Waterbury movements have “quarter-round” corners, while most other ogee movements tend to have the “tombstones” or plain rectangles. The movement could have been swapped but It is difficult to tell.

A clean Jerome style movement

Everything except the movement points to a period between 1840-50. If the movement is a replacement it was likely an early replacement.

30-hour movements will run surprisingly well with horrible pivot wear. However, regarding repair, my view is this: I do not normally install new bushings in every single pivot hole on the movement. If a bushing hole is passable I will leave it as-is but if the hole is quite oblong I will install a new bushing to mitigate potential gear meshing issues in the future.

Addressing the movement

I will also ignore some past repairs. For example, in this particular movement I noticed 4 punch marks around the escape wheel bridge pivot hole. As most clock repairers know using a punch to close a pivot hole was an acceptable practice many years ago though it is not considered a good practice today. In this particular case, the pivot hole was in good shape and I decided to leave it as-is. After assessing the movement further, I installed one bushing on the second wheel front plate strike side (S2) and the second on the second wheel strike side rear plate (T2). Just two bushings. As to the three lantern pinions, they were in very good condition.

Reassembly was routine. The time side ran fine.

Adjusting the strike side was not easy and should have been a simple procedure. The problem was not only correctly positioning the warning pin on the fly but ensuring that the warning hook lever could actually meet the warning hook. The levers in this clock had been bent every which way making it a real challenge to find the correct angles. It did not strike correctly before servicing. Trial and error combined with colourful language certainly helped correct the strike.

The finished clock

The gong block and coil were also cleaned up. Tip; it helps to put the same screws back in the same holes. Seems trivial but it is a good practice. Not all screws are the same.

Gong block removed and cleaned

Little time was spent on this clock and I was fortunate to have an almost perfect case. The previous owner knew how to take care of the case but the movement neede work. When many of these clocks stopped they simply became decorations but I am sure that this one will run reliably for many more years to come.

Website Powered by WordPress.com.

Up ↑